Deck-Officer.com

[denshipdick]

Aye p.p. how right you are - that is almost a certainty.
Aye she lolled - there can be little doubt about that.
Why did she loll ?
And What had she done ? - a short while before lolling.
No prizes for the correct answer to that one - just failure to those who don't get it right.
And what caused her to loll ? - get that one wrong, - and I'll sack the whole bloody lot of you.

[bulkshipsurveyor]

Actually, I don't think you can do that dsd.
And even if you could, it would be wrong to do so, (sack em all) as some of them maybe just cadets who are not yet at the stage where they could be reasonably expected to answer your question, at least not without giving them a clue of some sort.
(All the viewers of the string won't be "qualified" deck officers)
However, notwithstanding the foregoing, it is an excellent posting, maybe just brilliant - in fact.
Perhaps it is the clearest indication of what is wrong.
Food for thought, for sure.
Good posting - well done.

[denshipdick]

No, of course - I got a bit "carried away" with that one - if you know what I mean.
But, the clue has already been posted earlier on, by no less than you yourself bss. If they won't read the posts, study the string, use the site as a study guide, that sort of thing - well what's the use ?
You yourself gave them the clue in a previous posting - and in acknowledgement of your posting above, I'll take this opportunity to add another one, which will make it two clues in all.
That's as far as we should go, any more will be as good as answering the question for them, and there is no point whatsoever in that.
My final clue is - just look at the photograph of that ship lying on those rocks exposing a dirty great gash in her side. It's the clearest evidence of all, confirming the lolling condition.

[bulkshipsurveyor]

Hey DSD that is just brilliant.
At least you have clearly been paying attention in class - unlike someone I can think of - a long time ago now - on this site. ( Compass work, - if my memory serves me correctly)
I have indeed posted the clue as you have stated, BUT it was not in this Forum nor string, - it was in the other one
For the benefit of readers therefore, I refer you to the Seamanship Forum of this site, and to the string "Costa Concordia, - Where do you post this one ?, and specifically to my first posting dated January 19th 2012, - and to nine lines up from the bottom.

[peterpan]

[quote="bulkshipsurveyor"]
"Hey DSD that is just brilliant.
At least you have clearly been paying attention in class - unlike someone I can think of - a long time ago now - on this site. ( [i]Compass work, - if my memory serves me correctly[/i]"
Unquote.

That's right - I remember that one.
It was a Phase 1 cruise ship cadet, (Clyde Marine I think), shouting his mouth off on the net, making derogatory comments about his lecturers, or so it seemed.
But, the problem, he had at the time, was that he was incapable of differentiating between magnetic coefficients and corrector magnets. !!!!!!
He got his " slap on the wrist" and apparently saw the error of his ways - courtesy of some respondent member of this site.
I think he'd been out at the "Rising Sun" in Warsash - when he started carrying on, - on the net !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not suggesting he was intoxicated, but his posting suggested he might have been, indeed, it sort of confirmed it, I think.
No matter, at least he was not on a ship, and has seemed to act reasonably competently since then. Well let's just say " sensibly", at any rate.
I can't remember his name, at this time, but "ex-Uni" is "ringing a bell" in my head.
Maybe one of those crash course, "short cut to command" individuals. It's not fair on those guys, only the illusion that it is. One day it will come back and bite them and they'll likely end up like Mangouris of the Prestige or the guy in command of the Costa Concordia - and for reasons largely beyond their control.
It was not the rock that caused these casualties - it was systems failure. The rock was just the start of a string of events which should not have continued to the final scenario that they did. They should have been arrested long before that, but they were not.
However, it could have been hundreds of times worse, so easily.
What if, she'd rolled the other way, away from the rocks which arrested the total capsize.
That's how close it may have come to the greatest Maritime Disaster of all times.
Seems to me, the Captain of the Cruise Ship may have at least got it right in the end. Yes, maybe even he will emerge a hero - one day - years from now.
But, But, But, - that Italian Coast Guard, or Port State Control Guy, they call "Captain", - what a disgusting outburst, at such a time, what an utter and absolute disgrace.
Just typical - is it not ?

[bulkshipsurveyor]

Oh yes - that's right p.p. - spot on - I believe.
And that phase one cruise cadet you mentioned, I can remember that too.
I think I can confidently state he was not on board the Costa Concordia, so far as I can tell.
But he could have been, - " but for fortune " - as they say.
You mentioned also the terminology - "short cut to command" individuals.
I seem to recall "Fast track to command " was the term which became commonly used.
Don't rush it guys, - take your time - it will turn out better in the end.
Fast Track nothing, when it comes to the sea - for it will "have you" if you do.
That's virtually inevitable - as they say, and will do you no good in the end, or, sooner or later, - whichever you prefer.

Finally p.p. that reference you made to the Coast Guard Captain - it is highly relevant, I believe. One wonders about people like that, - in that part of the world, - do you not.
Whilst he was screaming at Captain Scettino, with his microphone in the one hand, - for all the world to hear, - what was he doing with the other ?
Was he issuing instructions to some other party, on a mobile telephone perhaps.
Well it's possible, and should be included in "the focus", - looking forward.
One wonders if " the Mafia" (or the like) were "tuned in", - so to speak.
What a "performance" - so much so, - it seemed to me - much like a skillfully orchestrated act.
Certainly not, what one would expect.
What a shocker - that's a fact.

[denshipdick]

Wow bss - in respect of those "mafia type" references you have made :-
If I didn't know better, I'd declare them to be preposterous.
So preposterous in fact, - that they are not preposterous at all.
Did this ship have some of its " management", maybe technical or maybe crewing, (maybe both) outsourced to some third parties, somewhere ?.
If so, then it is likely your suggestion is not preposterous at all.
No stone should be left unturned when they get stuck into the investigation of this one.
There is just too much at stake, unless of course they close the cruise industry down, (not necessarily the ideal solution) or more realistically, strictly limit the number of decks, and the maximum number of passengers.
4000 + civilian persons, on one single ship, is just way, way over the top, considering "the emergency situation".
You could get away with it with a Military Unit, but not civilian "cruisers", or whatever they call them.
How many max ? - well maybe, - well about, - well I don't know, - but certainly nowhere near the numbers involved in this case.
And I'd have a very close look at this terminology - "tourist navigation" rearing it's head in this case, - which by implication alone, must mean something other than "safe navigation".
Costa Cruises, - " Tourist Navigation" - Just what the bloody hell is that ?
It seems absolutely bizzare. Not IMO approved, - I would hope. Only Costa approved, I suspect.
Jesus Christ, - just what the hell is going on ?
Are they getting away with murder ?

[peterpan]

Are they getting away with murder ?
Pretty much - I believe.
The fact that Costa cut the Master loose so quickly and so publicly is I believe the strongest evidence that they are directly involved in it - right up to their necks, and they know it, for sure.
I think they will find it all but impossible to survive this one, indeed they probably don't deserve to.
As for Carnivals involvement, well that's a "smoking gun", in my view.They are almost certainly implicated, which is likely to be clearly indicated should they, in turn, move to cut Costa loose (the subsiduary company).
That may have already happened, as one media report states that Carnival has refused to pay for Scettinos legal expenses. If that is the case, then it seems to me its their way of abandoning Costa, which I suppose they have to do, if they too hope to survive. Lets face it, they might not.
Hopefully the flow on will result in major reform at the IMO which is failing to be effective as required. Like these cruise ships themselves - too big with too many passengers on board ????.
Disbandon the IMO ? Well probably not, but something has to be done.
That ship should easily have survived the hull damage, as should the other one which is the subject of this string, but neither of them did.
That's a disgrace.

[bulkshipsurveyor]

Oh well, time will reveal more about the events, I suppose.
Why they were so quick to cut the Master loose - escapes me. It was just too quick, and may yet turn out to be a big mistake on behalf of Costa.
There was one media report that left one feeling that the Master may not have actually been on the bridge, when she hit that rock, but it hasn't been elaborated on further.
Where were the watchkeepers and what the hell were they doing.It seems obvious they weren't doing what they should have been doing for whatever reason.
Of even greater concern is this thing they call "Saluting" whereby they market their cruise activities by running past selected locations at very close distance. "Tourist Navigation" tactics (Whatever that is) are adopted for such occasions, which it would seem, is a variation of Safe Navigation, - well it obviously is, and as for the "Salute" as they call it, well it's obviously absolutely obscene. Somebody or something must have upset them, to "Salute" in such a fashion.
Just a simple exercise called parallel indexing would have prevented it -
never mind all the other facilities they have available to them - or should have had - if they were functioning, of course.
Back to Basics - Back to Basics - the Basics which clearly have now long been lost, with all the crap now imposed.
It's frightening, so it is.
It can be seen how the collision with the rock came about with the likes of the "saluting" garbage imposed upon them, but to go from there to capsize onto the rocks - indicates monumental systems and procedural failures, (including many which won't be down to the Captain) not least of all, an apparent failure to identify just what was going on down below. Did anyone even care, did anyone even try to find out. ?
At this stage, nothing suggests they did, at least not until it was too late.
Maybe they'd been reading that "ancient mariner's" posting over at the other site - and following his recommendations on how to proceed under similar circumstances. The outcome at least suggests it.
I doubt they'll ever really get to the bottom of this one - but they might.

[denshipdick]

I agree with your comments yet again.
Obviously Costa has some explaining to do with respect to those terminologies " Tourist Navigation " and "Saluting".
In all of my days, (and I am an old guy now retired from the sea) I don't think I've heard anything quite as Bizaare, and I thought I'd heard it all. Surely those terminologies must have come to the IMO's attention and presumably been ratified by them, or their appointed representatives.
I am seriously beginning to wonder just who was actually "saluting" who in this case. Was it in fact Costa " Saluting " the Italian Coastguard, or maybe even the I.M.O. itself. It was certainly obscene enough, to suggest that might be the case. Perhaps even it was some other party getting Costa to do it for them ( knowingly or unknowingly ), - that's not as unlikely as it may seem, to the inexperienced eye.
Or perhaps, it was just a Maritime Version of the Benny Hill Show, being played over again ?
Well it wasn't very smart if it was.
There are many questions to be answered on this one. It will take years and years, at least, as long as it takes to be forgotten.
"Outrageous" - if you ask me, but from the total casualty count, little short of a miracle. Of that, there can be no doubt at all.
There will be a reason for that.

[bulkshipsurveyor]

Yes that's right - all those things are possible too - in a fiercely competitive world.
Perhaps even, it was someone on board "Saluting" Costa for some reason, (and not necessarily the Captain) or maybe even Carnival, who knows.
All things are possible, and as such, be assured - they happen.
Strangely enough, more so at times of economic crisis, I suspect.

[peterpan]

Just Fascinating - isn't it?
Or is it really something else ?
According to another media report, when the Captain was paraded before a magistrate to formalize charges (which is all they are, at this stage) it was but a very short hearing, as would be expected.
However, it appears the following was presented to the Magistrate who was seeking to learn why the Bridge voyage recorder was not available to investigators. According to the Captain (apparently) it had broken down some weeks earlier (two, I think.) and that he had requested Costa to have it fixed, but that had not been done.
On that one, I wonder why. I wonder also had it broken down or had it in fact, been rendered unserviceable. It seems likely to me, in either case, that this business of " Tourist Navigation " and "Saluting" may well be inter-twined with the reasons for it not being rendered serviceable again.
Another interesting one from that brief encounter with the Magistrate, who asked the Captain to confirm that he was the guy in command of the vessel at the time of the collision with the rock. The Captain confirmed that he was, but don't jump to any conclusions on that one because it doesn't mean much on his own. Indeed it might even suggest that very shortly before that occurrence, he was not, - if you know what I mean. Maybe indeed he wasn't actually the guy who hit the rock. He may be responsible, but that does not translate to - he did it,- not by any means. There is a difference, especially in this day and age when god only knows who may have really been calling the shots, or which pieces of paper were.
Just the "Fall Guy" perhaps, just the "upmarket handyman" to have on board at the time. Modern day overly legislated "ship management" practices foster that sort of thing - indeed may even encourage it. All the responsibility, and in effect, limited authority, if indeed any. How many more "Captains" do they have on board - in the old days it was one.
Strangulation by Legislation, (and so called mandated " Procedures") might be a good way to describe it.
It's the best terminology I can think of, - at this time.
"Swamped with technology" - too many "toys" to play with - like spoiled brats, - that also could be a contributing factor.

[bulkshipsurveyor]

Hey guys but there is the other side to all this, the side that so far has escaped mention in the media - unless I've missed something, which is possible.
What role did VTS play in all this, if any.
They must have had knowledge of what was going on - why therefore did they not start sounding off warnings. They must have seen the vessel break away from it's planned track, and head off for the Island. At that point, surely they would have become increasingly focused on their own VDU's/monitors. Were they, in their own way, giving the wink and the nod to this clearly established practice of switching from Safe Navigation to "Tourist Navigation" mode, for the purposes of "Saluting", as they call it.
Quite possibly, and that may well explain that Coast Guard Captain's outrageous verbal behaviour over the radio airways - subsequently relayed to the whole damned world.
Caught with his pants down - perhaps, or simply asleep on the job - well even that is possible, and not altogether surprisingly, either.

[peterpan]

Hmm there could be a lot of truth in that too.

[peterpan]

I have just received the following from popeyethesailorman with a request to "post it" on his behalf.

Quote:-
Is anyone aware of any U.K. tax payer hand outs being offered to Costa Cruises for the purposes of deck officer cadet training. If so, in light of the Costa Concordia, do you think that is the right thing to do ?
Could such monies be better spent ?
Unquote.

ptsm.